Suzuki Cavalcade Newsletter
#19 ~ February, 2002
Jay D. Johnson, Editor
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RAID ~ 2002
International Rally for Cavalcades
CADE RAID 2002 is set for September 16-18, 2002 at the Honeysuckle Inn
Resort in Branson,
Plans include exhibits and displays by suppliers; classes and workshops; rides through the scenic Ozarks; evening entertainment packages; an awards dinner and other surprises. Our goal is to gather at least 100 Cavalcades in one location.
You should get your reservation in early. There are only 65 rooms blocked
for our group with a special discounted rate. Half of those are already
reserved. You must identify yourself as attending the Suzuki Cavalcade Owner’s
Group meeting (“CADE RAID 2002”) to get our group room rate. The
OF EVENTS & REGISTRATION FORM ARE AT THE END OF THIS NEWSLETTER
Cade Raid 2002
1st to June 8th at:
Campingsite-Café in den
DETAILS AT THIS WEB SITE: http://sccn.mc.no/caderaid2002.htm
For the European
Cade Raid in
You can start signing up for Americade on line at www.Tourexpo.com now. We hope to see a lot of you up there. It is one of the highlights of our summer. Good company.... beautiful scenery and lake...and great riding. Some of you won't be able to make Branson...so this is great time to come out and meet the gang. One suggestion is to get your hotel or camping reservations in now...each year this is getting bigger and bigger. We have a wonderful restaurant in town that we meet up at and it serves as a central hang out if you just want to sit and watch people and enjoy the bikes. Hope to see a lot of you there ~ Nancy Dilldine. (Nurse Ratchet, Motherwind)
I just registered for Americade and while looking over their web site I found a reference to a club gathering called "Suzuki Cavalcades of North America: Cavalcade Club Gathering" is it this group? Thanks, ~ Neal
West Coast Caders will gather for a day of riding and admiring each other’s Cavalcades. Everyone should plan to arrive at Tahoe on Saturday evening July 20th. We will have a breakfast meeting from to on Sunday, July 21st at Mulligan’s restaurant. From to , we will take a scenic ride. I have spies in the Tahoe area now who are planning the ride’s route. Everyone will be provided a map just so no one gets lost (mainly me). We will have a social hour from to and then dinner. Next morning (Monday) we will head for home.
There is NO cost
for this gathering other than the normal cost of gas, lodging and meals. We have
a group rate for the breakfast and dinner on Sunday at Mulligan’s restaurant.
If you think you will come to the West Coast Cade Raid at
MEALS & LODGING AT TAHOE
West Coasters, I
have arranged our breakfast and dinner for Sunday, July 21 at Mulligan’s
next door to the Super 8 Motel. This is my bedroom of choice when I am on the road. I
have found the chain to be newer, cleaner and quieter than most Motel 6
locations. The cost is a few bucks more but is still substantially lower than
everyone else. I have priced seven motels in
Here are the dates
for the Texas Cade Raid; the weekend of May 4th if that’s rained out then May
18th. Locations are still pending and I'm still open for any suggestions. ~
CAVALCADE 101 ~
Hi there everyone,
just a short note. There are about 5 cavalcades in
DOWN UNDER CADE
My name is Peter
Girdler. I have a 1986 LXE, Blue on Blue, Vin JS1VX71A XG2106904, which was
manufactured 3/86. The bike was imported to
’86 CADE & ’01 WING COMPARED
In August, I was
fortunate enough to join Jay for his tour of the Canadian Rockies. What a
fabulous ride! Thanks again, Jay. I'm from
Overall, the Wing is more powerful, smoother, handles better, and the brakes are far superior to the Cade. The comparison would seem to be over at this point with the Wing as the clear winner. However, both bikes are not new models competing at the same price level. Please read about the details before you take the old Suzuki (and about $15K) down to the Honda dealer to make a trade-in.
Power - The Wing is fast. It has all of the low-end torque of the Cade, plus more (25%?). It accelerates quickly and keeps pulling throughout the power band.
Handling - This is by far the biggest advantage the Wing has going for it. I can not stress enough how well this bike handles! I read the reviews in the magazines and took the demo ride at Americade, but you really need to spend some time carving up some winding roads to appreciate the agility that this bike has. I let each of the guys on the tour take it for a ride up through a curvy canyon and they were very impressed with the handling. Low-speed handling is very easy. You don’t have to worry about dropping the bike if you get a little off balance at a stop. The low center of gravity keeps it from feeling top heavy.
Smoothness – Vibration is greatly reduced, especially under acceleration.
Ride – The suspension soaks up the harsher bumps better than the Cade does, but the overall ride is only slightly better
Brakes – The brakes were excellent. The bike stopped extremely well with a good “feel” to the brakes. This bike had ABS but I didn’t get a chance to test it (that’s a good thing)
Mirrors- The mirrors were slightly larger than the Cade. They were a little more clear at highway speeds due to less vibration.
Windshield- The windshield was adjustable, but I left it in the low position so that I could see over it. The air was still deflected over my helmet with limited wind buffeting.
Seat – The seat was a lot lower than the Cade. I’m just over 6 feet tall so I would have liked it a bit higher. It was very wide and comfortable. The back of the seat raises about 6-8 inches for lower back support. Several times I rode 3 hours straight without a problem. It’s a little high in the crotch area though.
Auto Select Radio Feature- with the push of a button, the radio finds and stores the 12 strongest FM stations and stations. Then you can toggle through the list.
Remote locking – the bike locks with the press of a button on the remote key fob. The Cade requires you to put the key into 7 slots (2 for each saddlebag, 2 for trunk, 1 for radio) to lock everything. That doesn’t even include locking the helmets (2 more).
– the horn was louder than most car horns. It even scared me a couple of
Gearing – I’ve always complained about second and fifth gears on the Cade. The Wing has it right. On both bikes, first gear is low for starting out and slow speeds. However, second gear in the Cade is much higher than first. It makes it more difficult when you are turning into a driveway, street, or parking lot at 10-15mph. First gear is too low and second is too high. But in the Wing, second gear is just right for low speed turns. At highway speeds, the Wing runs at lower RPMs due to a high fifth gear (overdrive). The Cade needs to have a higher top gear; it has plenty of torque to spare. This translates to less vibration and better fuel mileage at highway speeds.
“Bag-Open” indicator- if you don’t have one of the saddlebags/trunk bag securely latched, an indicator tells you. Similar to the kickstand being down on the Cade.
dissipation – The radiators are located in the fairing. Any hot air flows
out around the passenger area. I’m sure this heat could be captured in cold
weather conditions. The temperature gauge rises to exactly half way and stays
there. No fluctuation like in the Cade. Even when I was going across the high
Accurate fuel gauge – The fuel gauge on the Wing is very precise. It has 6 lines for the 6.6-gallon tank. When the gauge showed half was gone (3 lines) it took about 3 gallons to fill the tank. When it said 5 of the six lines were gone it took 5 gallons. I could go well over 200 miles on a tank of gas. On the Cade, the fuel gauge takes some getting used to. I can go 100 miles on the Cade and it barely moves below the full mark. Another 50 miles puts it at half full. But, you can be sure that you’ll have to find a gas station within the next 50 miles because the gauge quickly heads for empty. I usually have to rely on the trip meter to better estimate my fuel supply on the Cade. The Wing has 2 trip meters.
mileage- I got 40-45mpg over mostly open roads. I didn’t get to check it
Cruise- After setting the cruise control, the speed drops 3-4 mph before returning to the set speed. Annoying when someone is following you. Turn signals – I had a little trouble with them shutting off too early Air around handlebars – there are openings around the handlebars where they mount to the steering stem that let air come through. This is okay when it’s hot, but not when it’s cold. You can actually see the front forks and the pavement going by. I’m sure some company will build a boot to block this. The Cade has covers and a slide vent on each side of the ignition area that opens and closes to regulate this airflow.
Tire cupping- the front tire was scalloped/cupped when I looked at it the first day that I had the bike. I read on some Wing sites that they cup after 3-4k miles, but are okay for 9-12k. This Wing had 11k miles when I picked it up and 15k when I dropped it off. The tire was trash when I took it back. If it was the original front tire, that was okay. If the tire had been replaced before, it wasn’t good wear. The rear was getting low on tread, but it was fine.
Auto volume control – It didn’t vary enough with your speed. I had to turn the volume up manually on the highway and turn it down or hit mute when I came into a town.
Crotch of seat- raises up too sharply to where it meets the gas tank.
Saddle bags – I had to bang on them to get them to latch securely. Flimsy design. They opened outwards, so it was a pain to store things and keep them from falling out. I used the saddlebag liners from the Cade, which made it easier.
No cassette- This bike only had an AM/FM radio, no CD player. Cassette is not an available option. Too many hours were spent in the remote areas without any music.
Drive lash- when you give it some throttle and let off, there is too much play in the driveline.
Transmission – shifting was much easier/lighter than the Cade, but I expected the gears to mesh better. It still seemed too “clunky”.
Footpegs – the footpegs were too high for me, compared to the seat height. They were also too far back. I’m not sure if floorboards could make it better. The design of the engine/fairing would also make it difficult for me to use highway boards on this bike.
Handlebar position- the handlebars were very low and closer to me than I would have liked. They also did not sweep back; they were almost straight across the bike. I don’t know how much they could be adjusted.
Airflow – Overall, the aerodynamics were good with only light buffeting by the wind. One place that I noticed the airflow hitting me was at the top part of my boot, just above the bottom of my pant leg. I’m sure Baker has a product to deflect the air at that point.
Thumb controls- too many switches around the left thumb area (CB, high beam, horn, radio)
No gear indicator- doesn’t tell you what gear you’re in (except for Neutral, Reverse, and Fifth). I’ve had Suzukis for 20 years and I’m spoiled.
Sulfur smell- sometimes when I stopped I got a rotten egg smell.
Helmet locks- the helmet hooks were just under the back of the trunk, similar to the LXE’s. To unlock them, there were 2 levers inside the trunk that you slid to the side. It was easy when the trunk was empty, but my trunk was full the whole time and you need to be a contortionist to slide the levers with a full trunk.
No dc outlet- there was no cigarette lighter type outlet to plug in a radar detector, cell phone adapter, heated vest, etc… The dash was nicely sculpted, but there didn’t seem to be any easy place to mount any accessory items, switches, etc.
No voltmeter- Almost everyone adds something electrical to a touring bike, why no factory voltmeter to monitor the electrical system?
Brake squeal – Every time you come to a stop, the brakes screech from 10mph to 0mph.
Defects: Tire cupping – see above
Speedometer- 3 times during my travels, the speedometer acted up after I went through a construction area (coincidence?). When I sped up to 50 or 60mph, the speedometer was stuck down at 20 or 30mph. It would continue to misread the speed while I sped up and slowed down. The speedometer eventually would straighten out after several miles of riding.
Fairing pocket door- the spring for the latch came off the second day. I had to tape it shut until I got to a Honda dealer.
Loose crash bar- a mini-crash bar near the rear passenger floorboard came loose.
Trunk hinges- there are 2 hinges holding the trunk lid on. I went to open the trunk at one stop and it almost broke off in my hand. Four of the 6 bolts had fallen out! I had to stop at a hardware store and put in new bolts with nylon nuts to repair the hinges. The radio buttons occasionally stuck, similar to the Cade. However, 2 buttons work on a pivot action so you could press on the other side to unstick the button.
After 2 weeks and 4,312 joyous miles on the Wing, it was tough to give it back. It took a day or two to get comfortable on the Wing, but then I got used to it. The big test was to see what was going to happen when I was able to climb back on my own Cade. The key word here is ‘climb”. When I got home and mounted the Cade for the first time, it felt so high that I had to double-check to see if it was on the center stand, but it wasn’t. Also, the low flat handlebars of the Wing made the Cade bars feel like ape-hangers! I felt out of place on my trusty Cade. I went out for a ride and noticed more noise and vibration from the engine than I had before. I got to the first sharp curve at about 30mph and almost didn’t make it. The Cade drifted way over the centerline and halfway across the other lane before I got it under control. It’s a good thing no cars were coming the other way. The Wing would have been at ease with that corner at that speed. After being out on the Cade for a few hundred miles it now feels like home again. I’m used to the seating position, NVH (noise, vibration, harshness), and the handling. Everything seems back to normal. I guess you get used to whatever you ride.
The Wing now seems like a sweet memory from the not-so-distant past. Now, for the $15,000 question, “Would I trade my Cade for a new Wing?” Eventually, I’m sure I will. The bike is fantastic. If I was shorter than 5’ 10’’ and wanted a high performance sport/tourer, looking for increased power, handling, and stopping ability, it would be a done deal right now. The minor annoyances can be overlooked or eliminated with modifications. But for now, I’ll enjoy every mile on my Cade. Like Dan H from TX says, “Ride what you love and love what you ride” I do. ~ Dave from Massachusetts ’86 Blue LXE
I recently purchased a 2002 Pearl Orange Gold Wing. I generally agree with Dave's comparisons. Supposedly, most of the little "minor" problems have been corrected on the '02. The seat on the GW is certainly lower than my '86 LXE Blue on Blue, but the air seats on the Cade are more comfortable. I also miss the gear indicator. But the torque on the GW is awesome and allows one to travel in 5th as low as 22 mph and accelerate without any strain. It’s much faster and smoother and feels like the center of gravity is about one foot off the ground. I can turn the handlebars to full lock and travel at slow speed without worrying about loosing it. I must say however, that the slow speed handling of my Cade was much improved when I reversed the stanchions holding the handlebars (a suggestion found in this group of owners). Be Careful! If you ride a new GW (Cavalcade Jr.) you will get the bug to have one. ~ Gary in GA
PLUGS & IRON BUTTS
Wow, I was just reading the new newsletter and found out about the May, 1985 assembled bikes being prone to the secondary gear box plug failure. Mine went about 10 years ago on a ride up the Pennsy Turnpike with my wife on the back. We were trailing behind a bus for a few miles and I was getting sick of the smell. I passed and realized that the "smell" was my secondary gear fluid leaking out and vaporizing on the left-hand exhaust pipe! Thank God it never locked up. When I opened it up, the plug had been chewed to hell. In hindsight, we were very lucky. ~ By the way, I've completed my first certified Iron Butt Association ride, the Saddlesore 1000. Trying to do a few more rides (Bun Burner, Bun Burner GOLD and maybe the 50CC) this summer so I have a better shot at getting into the Iron Butt in '03. Incidentally, I scoured the certified ride site on the Iron Butt page and so far, I've got the only Cavalcade that I can find. Anyone else do an IBA ride on their 'Cade? Thanks, ~ Bob Lilley
Do we know for sure it was just those from May of 85 that were doing that? My plug fell out and it is a May 85. Who among us has had the secondary case oil plug fail? Especially those who are on the VIN list? This should be interesting. ~ Spike
Spike, my Cade has a slow gear oil leak at the secondary gearbox/driveshaft boot area. I haven't determined where it is leaking but just check the level periodically. I think my VIN was 1329, 3/85. ~ Bruce
Bruce, I suspect any Cade with serial number lower than 3764 is susceptible to this problem. After the first production run, which ended in July of 85, they evidently fixed the oil plug in that we haven’t heard of any past that first group suffering from secondary case oil leaks. But several in the first run that have had it. The secondary case oil plug is the only mechanical failure I’ve ever had on my May-85er. Sounds like Red Barber has it too. ~
Every Cade rider who has a vin number lower than 3764, do check your secondary case oil level, or failing that run your hand along the bottom of your shaft boot. If there is any oil on your hand afterwards, Red Barber and I already know where it came from and what hasta happen. ~ Spike
THE VIN LIST
Regarding the VIN list, if anyone wants to get on that, you need not freeze any wahoonies: the number is on your insurance card. We don’t need your date of manufacture any more, as we pretty much have that worked out. Now the VIN list has morphed into something else entirely. With 100 subscribers, the list now includes the mechanical failures for each bike and the mileage at which that failure occurred. The list is becoming a useful tool for anticipating problems. For instance, we are seeing a cluster of final drive bevel plug early-failures in the March to May of 85 bikes. If you want to get on that list, post me your VIN and whatever mechanical problems you have had and approximate mileage when it happened. ~ Spike: email@example.com
This may clear up a mystery: why there are so few 88 model Cades on the VIN list. The reason is that evidently most of the last ones built went to Canada and Europe. Some Cader in Europe perhaps posted the others to sign the Cavalcade_USA guest book, which explains why most of these were the relatively rare 88s. Let us hope some of the new signers will post VINs to get on that list. We have 103 bikes on the VIN list now, and several have posted me their mechanical failures. Some definite patterns have emerged: The first production run had problems with early failures of the secondary case bevel oil plug. The second production run was the most trouble free. The third production run had a light scattering of random problems, no clear trend. The fourth (last) production run had a puzzling unrelated bunch of problems that look to me like perhaps some sloppy work on the production line (but may be open to interpretation). Ill send out the updated VIN list in a week or so to those who are on the VIN list, let you decide. If you want to receive the VIN list, send me your VIN, which is on your insurance card. ~ Spike
HOW TO PICK UP A CAVALCADE
Dennis, Tell me please, what is the "proper...and easy..." way to pick up a Cade. This new guy would really like to know! Thanks ~ John Harelson, ’87 LX Grants Pass, Oregon
Jocotreas, hoisting a toppled Cade is done the same way you hoist a GoldWing. Turn you back to it and grabbing the bar and the seat rail. You start with your back straight and your knees at about 90 degrees and up you go. I’ve hoisted mine to vertical twice by myself. I saw a demonstration where a 200-pound sailor couldn’t right a GoldWing because he didn’t know how to do it. So a 125-pound woman hoisted it by herself, demonstrating the technique. It was a hoot. ~ Spike
John, I learned it here, before that I muscled, killing myself get the thing upright... First, if the kickstand is in the air, put it out to catch the bike when you set it up or it's going over the other way. Next squat, gripping the handlebar in one hand and bar by the seat with the other hand and your backside against the seat. Lift the first half of the way with your legs and finish up by pushing it the rest of the way with your backside. Before you let go be sure to flip the kickstand down with your foot. I have done this many times and takes little effort compared to trying to stand facing it and bullying it up. ~ Dennis
Should it be in gear to keep from rolling?
Couldn't hoit. Most of the time it will be down on the left side though. Don't know why that is. Or even "if" it is. Everyone who has dropped their Cade or had it fall over, which side went down? Mine has gone down 4 times on the left, never on the right. ~ Spike
CAVALCADE GROUP STATISTICS
Hi Everybody, I was going through the stats for Cavalcade_USA and thought I would share some of the information with you. Cavalcade_USA was founded on April 19, 1999. Our 3rd birthday is coming up this year. Our membership is currently at 502. Our members have sent 21,628 messages into the group since April 19, 1999. Since most folks don't like lots of numbers, I'll just leave it at that. :-) I'm ready for Bike Week. I'll be in Daytona in March, to watch as Nancy (Motherwind) and Larry (Grubfodder) terrorize the whole Harley community. :-) Good riding, ~ Bob Ramsey Orlando, Florida
(Editor’s Note: Bob is the Founder of this forum. We all owe him our thanks and should call him the "Cavalcade Godfather.”)
YOUR BIKE’S HISTORY
Hi, I need to know if there is a web site that can help me find out the past history on my Cavalcade, you know if the title is good on it, if it has been in an accident, etc. ~ Sassy
& REPAIRS ~
OK MONITOR UNIT
OK - I replaced the OK monitor unit and still the display will not show anything. I have taken apart, greased and reconnected all the connectors I could get to and still nothing. Any Suggestions? ~ Brian 87LXE in CT
Pardon me, fellow Caders, but once again I am triumphant with Tracy's help. If you recall (or even if you don't) I was having trouble with my OK monitor not working since the first year I had the Cade (1999). The old monitor unit was burnt & melted. I spent almost $200 on a new unit and it still didn't work. Today, I report with great enthusiasm that the problem was in the wiring. After looking at the troubleshooting pages that Tracy sent me (us), then checking the wiring diagram, there was a wire out of place. I rewired according to the diagram and it works! Thanks, Tracy, once again (that must be 3-4 I owe ya now...) ~ Brian 87LXE in CT
THE HUNT FOR A NOISE
Let's see if reasoning and investigations are going correctly? It first started as a noise that sounded like a plastic bag had gotten stuck between the front tire and the fender. Inspection revealed nothing, and it would repeat as I slowed down from speed. The sound was identified as more to my left front and would "at-first" call for a brake pad replacement. Did it! Both sides! The Disks were worn but tolerable. No-Luck! I've checked for wheel- bearing play.... None (OK) tight! I disconnected the speedo cable at the drive unit, taped it up and tried again! After a period of braking, the pads doing a fine job things warmed-up and again, on slowing (brakes off too) there was the noise again. Whoosh>>Whosh>>Whosh.decreasing cadance and volume as I slowed. ARGUHHHHHH!!!! Perhaps the speedo drive unit is effected by the heat and is screeching till it cools again...IDEAS? Similar experiences? Don't you just love this kind of thing when it happens to other people’s bikes and you solve the problem? ~ Bill the Fish Guy ’86 LXE Blue
Bill, You said there was no play, but did you actually check the bearings? A dry bearing (or one where the grease has caked) can still be tight yet could make the noise you describe. Removing the front wheel ain't that bad and will allow a more thorough investigation of the bearings and the speedo drive. ~ Tracy
Bill, That was the same noise coming from the same location that my speedometer gear made before it finally broke! ~ Dave '86 Blue LXE
When I had my new front tire installed the installer did not straighten the Speedo gear drive housing and that left the Speedo cable attached at a very bad angle. It was making that noise on the way home. I thought it was the brake pads since the wheel was off. 10 miles later the Speedo cable broke. I should have looked things over better after I picked up the bike. Lesson learned. ~ Joe in Co
GEARBOX OIL LEAK
Looking for help here. I've got a small oil leak at the boot on the driveline. I have the oil seal for the rear of the secondary, but, when looking at the Big Blue Book, I noticed a plug in the end of secondary bevel gear. Can this plug cause a leak at the boot? Even if it isn't the cause, should it be changed anyway? Has anyone had a problem with this plug? Begging for warmer weather, ~ Red ’86 LX
Yes, the plug was the problem. In severe cases it would blow out and leak all of the fluid into the tube. Impending gear lockup was the finale. ~ Tracy
Just off the top of my head I'd say the rear seal is leaking, IF that plug comes out you will have a sudden loss of the oil in the intermediate gearbox. there is a diagnosis I did of mine on the SuzukiCavalcade web site. I put up with an intermediate gearbox OVERFILLING from the engine for 1 year. Just remember if that gearbox is run dry that it can cause a rear wheel lock up. If you have to pull the intermediate there are other seals you'll need to replace. This is MAINLY because of the possibility of them going bad after you fix the rear seal, if that IS the problem, there's no way I'd would pull the intermediate gear box off again and just replace 1 seal, been there done that. Good luck with your OIL leak. I have personally been keeping an eye on the intermediate oil level. especially when on long trips, better safe than sorry. I would think if that plug came out you would have more than drops of oil out the boot, probably soak the left driveline. I think the diagnosis I did is in the maintenance. Section. ~ Walter n Maryland
When I was having my intermediate overfill problems, I made up 2 quick check tubes. 1 for the intermediate breather tube,1 for the driveshaft/left swing arm. These tubes consisted of enlarging the breather tube hole with a #13 drill bit pressing a brass barbed fitting into that hole, attached to it was a length of rubber hose that was slid down into a length of clear plastic tube. By doing this in 2 seconds I could tell if the intermediate gearbox had overfilled, as overfilled oil would enter the tube and collect in the clear plastic, it wasn't to catch it but mainly to let me know the box was overfilling. The catch tube for the left swing arm was installed by drilling again with the #13 drill bit a hole very very carefully into the bottom of the swing arm where the larger section is for the u-joint. And again pressing a brass 90-degree barbed fitting, into this hole. Again with the rubber/clear tubing rig made a stainless bracket to hold this tube up against the swing arm. Theory being if this tube collected any oil I knew to check the intermediate for a low level. Even with these tubes in place. They would only fill to the breather holes that must be in the clear plastic tube, any over flow would naturally show up on the bike, and I think we all know if the side or drive line is covered in oil we need to check something. I put these on my bike so at a rest stop or coffee stop I could readily check on an oil condition and might just catch it before it got bad. They work too. As when the intermediate overfilled it started to collect in the tube, I drained the intermediate, refilled it with gear oil, as if I had kept riding it overfilled it would have eventually blown the rear seal. And would have lost all the gear oil. There were a couple of guys that were going to install these, don't know if they did, if so did yours work? Will post drawings of modification if anyone is interested. Ride safe Walter n Maryland
Thanks to both of you. I have the rear seal and will order the plug. I know the oil is coming from the secondary, not the final. I replaced the seals on the secondary last year but did not do the plug. Should have, but if I did everything right the first time, I'd be bored all winter. My wife says a bored husband is a dangerous husband. Walter, you are probably right about the amount of oil signifying the seal. I probably nicked it last time. ~ Red
The dreaded secondary plug. Red, your bike was made right along with all the others that have had that oil plug problem. I suspect a systematic error in manufacturing around that time. The boot is exactly where the secondary case oil would show up if the plug fell out. Don’t ride the bike that way, that plug could get caught in the secondary bevels, which could lock the back wheel. ~ Spike
Spike, if it were the plug wouldn't it be far more than a few drops now and then? ~ Red
I'm like red. If that plug comes out you're going to see a lot more than a couple drops of oil now and then. As for a rear wheel lock up, it's a plastic plug isn't it? Spike yours came out, did your rear wheel lock up? Or did it just chew the plug up? As for it being a common problem I have only heard of a couple of them coming out. You should definitely check it when you remove the secondary gearbox. When and if I have to do mine I’m thinking very seriously of pouring that gear shaft full of some type of epoxy or maybe a wooden plug epoxied in the u-joint end. The hollow shaft was only needed in the manufacturing of the gear and shaft. Has anyone approached a Suzuki dealership/repair shop that might have a recall/defect listing on the Cade? I'm sure there was one issued. If anyone does try the wooden plug make sure you drill a hole in it so as not to unseat the plastic plug as you push it in from the u-joint end of the shaft. Do you know what I mean? The fellow on e-bay that was selling those parts stated the bike had suffered a rear wheel lock up because a service shop had forgotten to fill the secondary gearbox on a service job. Just make sure you don't run it dry. ~ Walter n Maryland
Yah, I would think so. Did you check the secondary oil level? I can imagine a scenario where the plug is out of its seat but still in the center of the driven bevel, sorta cocked sideways in there. I’m pretty sure the assembly needs to come off to take a look at it in any case, because it might just be threatening to come out. Could it be you lost almost all the secondary case oil on a trip and didn't notice, then all you are seeing now is the last little bit in there? To check the oil level in your secondary case, I use a chopstick with a piece of tape on it to indicate the level. It also makes it convenient if I want to have a salad with oil and vinegar: all I have to do is add the vinegar. But I digress. Check the oil in your secondary case and report back, so we can diagnose this problem. ~ Spike
UP It’s a plastic plug isn't it?
Mine is a metal plug with a rubbery coating. It probably wouldn't lock the back wheel by itself, but I wouldn't want to try it
yours came out did your rear wheel lock up?
No I was lucky. Somehow the plug didn’t get caught in the gears, it just fell to the bottom of the case. I used the same plug when I put it back together, but I gooped Locktite sleeve retainer on it.
Or did it just chew the plug up?
As for it being a common problem I have only heard of a couple of them coming out. Yes, I’m hoping everyone who had that problem will speak up, especially those who have already posted me their VINs, so we can see if it was a calendar related systematic manufacturing goof, such as a factory worker that didn't know he was supposed to use sleeve retainer. The fellow on E-bay that was selling those parts stated the bike had suffered a rear wheel lock up because a service shop had forgotten to fill the secondary gearbox on a service job. Make sure you don't run it dry. I know Mike Cohen had his back wheel lock up and that the secondary case was dry. But those secondary bevels should have been singing a song way before they locked up. Mine started whining. I took it apart, no oil, but also no signs of wear at all, none! The secondary bevels with 23k on them looked brand new. I’m wondering now if Mike's secondary case was dry. the gears got really hot. then coincidentally he hit a bump or somehow got the plug caught in the already hot gears. The shop wouldn't show him the locked gears, but I have me doubts about the shop that did his work. If anyone buys that E-bay parts bike, I would be interested in seeing the inside of the secondary case. ~ Spike
This is the top view of the secondary gearbox, the plug in question is in red. And yes Spike, it appears to be some sort of non ferrous metal encased in hard plastic or rubber and according to my non professional micrometer to be pressed approx. 3/8” to ½” into the inner gear end of the shaft. My McGuyver fix is to clean the oil and grease residue out of the aft end of the shaft and pour about 1 to 11/2" of epoxy or I would prefer JB weld into that end carefully as not to get it on the inner splines for the driveshaft. And having the gearbox held with the rear seal vertical until the JB cured. The JB is indicated by the red dots. I feel this would be a permanent fix for this problem. Wonder what Mr. Suzuki’s fix was? I checked this fix out on a spare secondary I have and think it would work. Driving in a wood plug is out of the question because the shaft has inner splines for the driveshaft. This will be my fix at the next removal of the secondary gearbox. Be sure to check oil levels before during and after a long trip especially if there is evidence of a leak. ~ Walter n Maryland
I'm putting the
bike back together after replacing my drive shaft. I found some oil in the boot
off the upper G-box just enough to wet your finger . so I' m gonna order the
seals after Daytona, figure I'll check the level each day. I like your fix
Walter and I may try that. ~ Two questions
:Why is there a hole that needs to be sealed? Why didn't Suzuki plug it too? The
new drive shaft is 1/3 bigger than the old one. So I hope that’s a fix for my
clanging noise. I've changed all the oils, new Dunlop on the rear, some new
lights, and both heated vests are wired now.
Larry: When you used a 2x4 on the hitch to remove the back tire, how did you keep the bike from falling over? ~
Brian, 87LXE in CT
Brian it was pretty
well balanced between the right and left side of the hitch, but it wouldn't take
much to tip it. That’s why it’s a two-man job. This got me thinking. Maybe
there is a way to stabilize it better. ~ Larry
Larry, The reason for the hole is the result of the machining process to make the rear gearbox shaft, as it is a hollow shaft with internal splines for the drive shaft. ~ Walter
Walter, are you talking about replacing the plug with JB Weld or just putting it in back of the plug? This sounds like a real good idea to me. ~ Red
Red: I'm referring to: 1. After removing the gearbox and replacing the seals to ensure that the plug is in place and looks secure. 2. Position the gearbox with the aft(driveshaft seal up) 3. Clean out any oily/greasy residue from inside the shaft internal splined end. With Brakeclean and a rag on a wire (like a rifle barrel cleaner) making sure the inside of the shaft is clean as possible and not dislodging the fact plug. 4. Mix JB Weld and pour/place it in the shaft all way to the button making sure it fills 1" to 1 1/4 inch up in the shaft (when it hardens it will form the plug and will also have the factory plug in place) just like the attachment shows. 5. After insuring the JB had cured, lube the splines and seals up real good making sure there is no dirt/grit on any of the sealing surfaces. 6. Make sure you don't get any JB Weld on the splines or seals. If you heat the JB up just a little, makes mixing easier cures a little faster. They suggest 24 hr. curing time. Is this clear as mud now? ~ Walter n Maryland
Just got done replacing the oil seal on the drive shaft and the plug on the bevel gear. Was a little more extensive job than I thought it would be. Had a big surprise when I got it all apart....no plug in the bevel gear at all. I think it's previous owner poured it out with the oil the last time he changed the oil seal in between the crankcase and the secondary. Just never noticed it. He doesn't have a computer, so he didn't have all you guys to warn him about it. Just one bad thing, In putting the stator case back on, I didn't get the wiring grommet back in place and promptly blew about two quarts of Mobile One all over the bike and the road for about two miles. Didn't leak when I started it up but, when revved up a little , it just ran out the hole, back along the exhaust, up on the side cased and generally all over. . Sooooo, a little more work and a couple of quarts more and the job is done, I hope. Thanks to everyone, especially Walter and Spike. Now, it's time to ride. Warmed up to 48 today. I am so ready. ~ Red ‘86 LX
Ok Group, Here is my story on the gearbox leak. Tore it down and found the plug to be installed correctly and had to actually knock it out. Didn't find any sealer on the plug. Did find the white semi soft goo on the bolt someone mentioned. Found out why and where my leak came from. I purchased my bike in August 2000 and it had a funky tire on the rear that handled bad and made noise when cornering but I put up with that for a while and did not see any leaks at that time. Well then I took it to my local shop and had a new Dunlop Elite II put on and rear brakes. After that I started to see the leak from the boot but not right away. Long story short, when the bike shop had my rear wheel off and stuck the drive shaft back in I think they damaged the seal and it started to leak. But it took a while to saturate the boot and dirt to plug the boot and eventually fill the tube. So this is why it finally got to the outside and under the driveshaft tube and became more visible. I could be wrong about this but I'm sure that if I am, someone will set me straight. Sound off Please. Oh I only have 24,000 miles on it. Thanks ~ Frank in Indy
Frank, was there a particular reason that the shop took the driveshaft off? You don't normally need to do this when just removing the rear tire. I suspect it just started leaking. The secondary bevel seals on the Cades seem to all leak and need to be replaced. ~ Denny Potoczky, 86 Cavalcade LXE, 99 Kawasaki Nomad, South Bend, IN
Frank: I agree with
your assumption completely. When they removed the rear drive, in order to
replace the tire, they inadvertently dislodged the driveshaft from the bevel
gear box, which can happen. And instead of pulling the boot back to reengage the
splines into the bevel shaft. They damaged the rear seal in the process. If you
are not careful removing, the final drive in the tire process it will dislodge
and with the u-joint, you have to slide the boot off the intermediate in order
to Popsicle stick the splines back into the intermediate shaft. As it is time
consuming if not nearly impossible to get the splines back into shaft, without
damaging the rear seal. Now we have the rest of the story. ~ Walter n Maryland
I would like to know if anyone has used synthetic oils in the engine, secondary drive and final drive. I am changing fluids and would like to check out synthetics. ~ Mud
Yes, people have used and benefited from using synthetic oil in all 3. I use Mobil 0ne fully synthetic oil in the crankcase (least expensive at Wal-Mart) and noticed an increase in gas mileage and am sure in other areas too. ~ Brian in IN 87 tt Gray LX
I have put full synthetics in my Cade. I use Mobil One, oil and the gear oil. So far so good. I do use some Marvel Mystery Oil in the crank and always in the gas. The best thing about the gear oil is that it has almost no smell. I love the smell of Marvel Mystery Oil, buy it by the gallon. I was always told that it is an upper cylinder lubricant and keeps the valve stems lubed, especially in older engines that are to be run on lead gas, which kept the valves from sticking. ~ Joe in Co
Kelly, I buy the Outlaw brand octane booster 4-packs that come in little 3.5 oz metal bottles. I fill the bottles with 1/2 Mystery oil and 1/2 octane booster and put that in the tank every other thankful. Joe in CO
Just another voice. Have been running Mobil1 in secondary and final drive for 3 years without any problems. I used a Quaker State synthetic blend in the engine last year - bike seemed to shift smoother will probably try Mobil 1 engine oil this year. ~ Al from Mass
I've been using Mobil 1 in all my vehicles and either find improved gas mileage or cooler running engines. On my Cade it seems to run and shift smoother, but also when I go for long periods of not firing it up, it seems much easier to start then it did using any other oils including other synthetics. I have 80,000 on my bike and all of it (except for the break-in) has been on synthetic oil and the last 5 years or so on Mobil 1. ~ Doug Jensen
I bought the little bottle of Bars Leak at the auto store. It didn't have pellets but a powder. I mixed it with the first liter (thanks Pepsi) bottle of mixed antifreeze and dumped it in the radiator. Added more till the radiator was full, filled the overflow tank, and took it for a ride. Came back, checked, and refilled the overflow. That was almost two years ago. ~ KennG
My guess is that the tanks are blow molded. If you're not familiar with that process, here's a quickie explanation. A two-half mold is closed between a pair of platens and inside that mold is the shape of the exterior of the tank. Molten plastic is then drooled into the mold opening (probably the filler neck) and when enough of it gets in there, gas pressure is introduced into the center of the drool and that blows the plastic outwards against the walls of the mold. The mold halves are cooled so the resin takes a set and the mold is opened and the part removed.
What we have to remember is these bikes were produced in the mid to late eighties when plastic was being introduced into new applications at an alarming rate. Some of these applications (such as radiator overflow tanks) are quite demanding. Plastic selection and stabilization against heat, sunlight and oxygen induced oxidation (which, generally, results in the embattlement of the plastic) can be more complicated than many realize.
The "seam" as it has been referred to, is actually the mold parting line and is sometimes referred to as a witness mark. The funny thing about that line is that it may be point of highest stress when the tank was originally molded and may also be the point at which the material is thinnest since it is the furthest point away from the center of the drool. Those two things make that area more susceptible to long-term aging effects of the various operational elements. ~ Personally, I believe that none of the engineers of the day had enough information about the plastics they were using to really do a very good job of using them in designs. Look at any 80's bike that has had any time in the sun and you will usually find heavy oxidation, embrittlement and even total failure (early 80's GS Suzuki front brake master cylinder reservoirs are a prime example) of plastic components. A lot has been learned since then and the plastics of today are better stabilized against the elements and resin companies have gotten better about helping companies select the right plastic for the right job. ~ Tracy
Is it true that you should not run synthetic oil in a high mileage engine because it is thinner than the real stuff and will cause burning/smoking and all around mosquito repelling? ~ Nick
Synthetic oils maintain their viscosity better than petroleum oils, that's part of what makes them better lubricants. As the oil heats up, synthetics thin LESS. They are thinner when cold (which vastly improves start-up lubrication, which is when most wear occurs) and change viscosity less as they heat up. Less viscosity change is a good thing, especially for higher mileage motors. The main issue with synthetics is clutch condition. If the clutch is already questionable, a synthetic will surely amplify its weakness. ~ Tracy
In reference to Tracy's above statement, I will relay my first hand knowledge of this. My bike has 47k miles on it, and I had used reg. motor oil it in when I first got it (in July 2000). I had noticed that my clutch would slip when accelerating hard in 3rd & 4th gear for quite a while. I also came home with a sore big toe after an all day ride on the Cade in tennis shoes, hadn't realized how hard the Cade shifted until then. I was ignorant of synthetic oils until I joined this group and learned all the pros of it, the only con is the cost. I decided to try it in my next oil change, (thinking of my toe of course), and after much research, decided to use Mobil one fully synthetic. Needless to say, my big toe is grateful, and my clutch slippage is no worse then it was before. It's not any better either, but I am working on that right now. I have my Barnett springs and will check the clutch plates for wear to make sure they are in tolerance. Anyone wondering if you should use synthetic oil, don't wonder, just use it. Research labs have rated Mobil 1 up there with the higher dollar oils, and only at about half the cost. $17.87 for a 5-qt jug at Wal-Mart. And for Spike who likes numbers, that comes to about $3.57.4 per qt. LOL I just did my secondary and final drive units last winter, and was not aware that synthetic gear oil was available. #!~%^&#~^ You can bet I will use it in the next gear oil change I do. ~ Brian in IN 87 tt Gray LX
Hi, I tried running Golden Spectral in my bike. It had over 100,000 miles on it at the time. It set up such a howl I drained it after a thousand miles and went back to Castrol GTX, which I have always run in it. It howled like a banshee with the synthetic in it. ~ Eugene, San Diego
Richie, I don’t think that you should use the 10w40 when it’s synthetic oil. Most of us are using 15w50, and I bought a 5-qt jug from Wal-Mart for 17.88. Wherever you bought yours, its highway robbery. Take it back, say it was the wrong stuff and go to Wal-Mart. just my 2 cents. ~ Brian in IN 87 tt Gray LX
Richie I think he bought the Mobil 1 motorcycle synthetic oil and that is about 7 $ a quart. I agree with you that the 15/50 is as good. Go to Mobil one web site and you will see all their oils. ~ BobL
Should I drain the 10w40 out and replace with the 15w50, or wait until I have 3 thousand miles on it and then switch over ~ Richie
It should be fine, Richie. Synthetic oil is thinner when its cold then reg. oil is. That’s why you can use thicker oil as compared to reg. petroleum oil. 10w40 synthetic will not thin out any worse then reg. oil when it gets hot, so you should be fine. ~ Brian in IN 87 tt Gray LX
FIXING THAT LEAKY BEVEL GEAR PLUG
If that plug is leaking, it must be out of its seat at least partially. Use some Locktite blue sleeve retainer on it when you push it back in, and be sure to get that bevel cleeeeean clean of all oil, otherwise the Lactate won’t bond and it might come loose again. ~ Spike
Blue Locktite is the weakest. If you really want to hold something in a pressed fit, use GREEN. In fact, you may not be able to get it apart without warming it up a bit if you use GREEN. The blue gets real weak as it heats up. ~ Tracy
Oops, right you are Tracy. Dammit! The green stuff specifically says “sleeve retainer.” That secondary case oil probably gets pretty hot on a long ride. ~ Spike
Tracy: I have to agree with you on your summation of the oil transfer. If that plug comes out of the aft bevel gear there's only one place for the oil to go. Namely into the boot, swing arm and overboard. As for the transfer, I know for a fact it will transfer engine oil into the gearbox. Mine has been doing that for a year or better and especially, at high freeway speeds. That was the reason for me enlarging the breather tube and placing a small clear plastic catch tube. So I would know at a glance the bevel gear box was overfilled and forcing oil out the breather, to correct this, bevel gear box was drained, fresh gear oil put back in and engine oil re topped off. I did this so I would not run the bevel gear box OVERFILLED, and possibly blow the rear seal. The seal problems will be taken care of this season's get ready maintenance days. But as you stated you had to be there. Most of my driving years I've owned something you had to do a little maintenance on once in a while, and have been an avid oil level checker, all my oil levels are checked before each lengthy trip, during and upon return. every now and then when on the road, I will place the bike on the center stand in a nice level spot, so while I'm eating, the oil will settle in the sight glass and I will know at a glance, the engine is ok. I also keep an eye on the left aft running gear as if a leak should develop in the bevel, which is where it'll most likely show up.
Was the plug completely out? if the boot was good then the oil must have collected in the left swing arm and not showed up on the bike. As for the BOLT A that Suzuki suggests sealing or bonding. For the life of me I can't see how it would possibly allow any engine oil to enter the gearbox. That bolt hole is a through hole straight through the gear box case. There is no entry whatsoever into the inner cavities of the gear area. My curiosity was up. I went and looked at my spare intermediate BOLT A hole, even blew compressed air through it with one side sealed, nada. BY not sealing that bolt it MAY allow engine oil to leak out, onto the ground, or exhaust system, I guess it's another case of you had to be there. With all these strange unexplainable, losses of oil I know for sure I"M GONNA CHECK IT REAL close. I know for a fact my seal between the Trans/case(mainsheet) to the bevel gear box is causing my transfer, and it's only bad when I have traveled long haul, at high speed. MY plug isn't out and my rear seal isn't leaking as my catch tube on the bottom of the left swing arm has not shown any oil drops YET???? She'll undergo the repairs before the season starts. ~ Walter n Maryland
I was just checking the radiator overflow tanks and found that the previous owner used green antifreeze in the bike. The manual says to use antifreeze for an aluminum radiator, which I always thought was pink like Dexcool. Am I correct? Or is there green antifreeze that is meant for aluminum radiators also? I thought my overflow tank that is hidden above the engine was leaking, (didn’t see any fluid in it and saw some wetness on the bottom of it), but upon removal and inspection, found that it did have fluid in it and could not find any leakage. Which is fine with me. :-) Working on getting it ready for spring, ~ Brian in IN 87 tt Gray LX
Green is okay for aluminum. Pink is propylene glycol instead of ethylene glycol so it's safer in case you drink it (it won't kill you like ethylene). They didn't even have propylene glycol available for vehicles when the Cav was made. Read the label. It will say for aluminum. ~ Tracy
Most antifreeze is OK for aluminum today. It's not that bad of a job to drain and replace. ~ KennG
I thought the anti freeze had to be silicate free, or it could mess up the water pump. Or is that why you have to add Bars Leak. I don’t know just thought I remembered something about silicate. ~ Roy in TX
I added the Bar's leak when I changed it last. Better safe than worried. ~ KennG
The anti freeze that is pink is also SILICA free which some manufactures state is safer for the seals in aluminum water pumps than the green, that contains SILICA agents. When I changed mine last year I went to the PINK. OF course up until that time it had the green in it, so it might be too late IF THERE IS anything to claims made by the manufacturers and when looking for SILICA FREE anti freeze it all happened to be pink. I also added the BARS stop leaks as the manual suggests. ~ Walter n Maryland
When adding Bars Leak to the cooling system be careful. I changed anti freeze a year or so ago and added Bars as recommended . I accidentally put in too much and it caused an over-heating problem. I had to remove radiator and get it cleaned. I also had to flush the rest of cooling system. ~ phenry67 86 LX br/br Colo
As one member in a previous post stated he had dissolved the pellets in warm water (I think) before he added the bars leak. Which I personally think is a good idea. I didn't especially like adding the pellets into the radiator either and didn't add more that called for. I checked at a Suzuki shop locally and they didn't understand why they suggested adding the stop leak before needing it. My only assumption is that due to the uneasy way you have to get to the radiator cap. You put it in before hand and it was there in case a leak did develop. I don't know is there a pellet free bars stop leak? I also put in about 4oz of water pump lubricant and corrosion preventer. My own preference and who knows might even contain silicas. Did I defeat the purpose of the silica free anti freeze? Time will tell. Until then I have piece of my mind. ~ Walter n Maryland p.s.: all my additives stated safe for aluminum blocks and radiators
For what it's worth, I haven't used any type of stop leak in my system since 1990. I haven't detected any leaks nor have I had any problems with the cooling system other that the *(^%#_**&^) center reservoir. I'm on my 3rd one. I still have the original that has been repaired with a hot melt glue gun in case I need a spare. They apparently had a problem molding the part at the manufacturer. The thing always leaks at the seam. Actually I'm not sure if it's a seam or a line from the injection mold. ~ I also started using the "pink" anti freeze a few years ago without problems. The bike still runs warm in the city traffic and the fan goes on & off just like it's supposed to. ~ Ray & Lin LeTourneau, firstname.lastname@example.org "In The Woods" Nekoosa, WI
The service manual suggests either a NIPPON DENSO X22EPR-GL or NGK PJR7A as the standard plug for the 87 model CADE and to replace the plugs every 11,000 miles. What is the groups plug of choice NIPPON or NGK? What is the average life of a set of plugs for the CADE? Where and about what price is the going rate? Thanks ~ David Williams Evansville, Indiana 87 LXE
List of plugs that will work in the Cade. Here are plug types that are used in 86 LXE: Denso X22EPR-GL NGK PJR7A or DPR8EA SPLITFIRE SF416D Champion SERIES 810 plug type RA8HA. Sockets most are 18MM champion are 16MM. ~ KennG
Last year I bought Splitfires from Dennis Kirk for $1.69 each... I should have bought several sets. ~ Branden
David, I bought the cheap NGK plug for mine and it runs fine. Got same gas mileage and starts hard in cold weather with both. I changed mine at 17,000 and put on 7,000 so far and no problems so far. Don't forget our ride for Indiana it looks like it will be 6/22/02 weekend and I promise it will be verrrrry interesting. Camping will be included and good company and food and so on. If you don't come we will talk about you. lol ~ Frank in Indy
Dave, I've been
going with Champion for the last 12 years. I pay $1.09 each. No change in
mileage or performance, just a major change in price. Of course they're not
platinum tipped, but who cares if they do the job. ~ Mikey
DPR8EA9. Great plug, I got 9,000 miles on them in one year. ~ Gerry in NY
Help, I need to know what oil to put in the forks. I see by the CD that it uses #15 oil. What is that ? ~ Terry ‘86LX
15 weight fork oil. AKA - automatic tranny fluid. ~ Tracy
Thanks, I assume Dexron. ~ Terry
Yes, ~ Tracy
I went to the local Honda shop to see about new tires today and this is the results: Dunlop 491 elite 2--front 130/90-16 qualifier rear--mv 150/90-15-- installed including tax: $428.00. Is this a fair price, they are the only Suzuki dealer around here ~ Richie
It is if they remove the tires from the bike themselves. ~ Gerry in NY
Richie, I think he is a little high. However, tire cost and the tax on tires vary from state to state. Add a labor cost of $65 -$70 an hour for installation. He probably not that far out of line. God bless, ~ Bob D. Indy/Gideon
Richie, I bought a
manual tire changer with the motorcycle adapter from Harbor Freight for $70 and
mounted it on 2 X 12s because I was sick and tired of paying those prices.
Balancing isn't really a problem. Try it. You'll like it. ~ Mikey
Thanks, I looked in my owner's manual and it is not that big of a deal to remove the tires. I have a MAW catalog and their prices are a lot cheaper on the same tires that I got at the Honda shop. I build and rebuild ultralight aircraft and the engines so this tire changing thing will be ok with me--I'm doing it myself and will look at Harbor freight for that tire changer--------------Richie
P&S--sometimes I just get a little lazy--
Richard, at Americade last year Dunlop wanted $224 to put a new rear tire on and grease the spines. cost me $218 at the Suzuki dealer in 1995 for the rear. I think it was about $170 for the front. Honda dealer does not sound far off. ~ Dunlop dealer in NH last fall quoted $155 for the rear tire plus labor. I plan to have it installed next month.
I found out from a Suzuki mechanic there is a special tool for the greasing. Just for the record riding one up my current rear tire has 33,000+ on it and there is tread still left - just doesn't feel right on wet roads. ~ Al from Mass
It takes me about an hour to take the rear wheel off of my Cade. Save yourself some money and do mail order and I'll bet you could save about $150. Follow the instructions in you bike manual and you should have no problem. ~ Doug Jensen
For both tires from a dealer not a bad price, I would pay that in a heart beat. Here in the KY state the going price for the rear tire mounted and balanced is 210 dollars out the door to say from a Honda dealer. ~ Ronald Cole
I believe I paid $250 at the local independent shop for the rear tire and install. btw I went to get an inspection on the bike and noticed they were charging $75 per hour for labor. OUCH! ~ Dan
I would consider staying away from the Qualifier. They don't last long for the money and there are a good number of better choices. Most dealers will mount your tires if you carry in the wheel & tire for about $35 each including a spin balance. ~ Ray & Lin LeTourneau, email@example.com, "In The Woods" Nekoosa, WI
the price sounds very high. I wouldn't mess with harbor freight either. I take my own off then take it to the local motorcycle shop and the will remove the tire from the wheel, install the new tire, and balance all for $20. ~ Big Dog
I have replaced my clutch springs with the Barnett type. All my dealer needed to know was what bike they were for - a little mote effort to pull/hold the clutch lever but no more slippage. The part Number for the Barnett springs is 2012-312. That is a set of 4 and they only cost about $10.00. ~ Brian 87LXE in CT
Well I was all set
to test drive the Cade after doing the drive shaft an those extras , when I
noticed a little puddle of water beneath the Cade, appears to be coming from a
small slot, right front on the bottom, I guess this is the water pump. I should
I just replace it, the entire pump I suppose, and not just the seals, I’m off
to the archives to see what others have said covering this problem. You got to
love this group. I'd be lost otherwise. Guess my riding in Daytona bike week is
a bust . ~ Larry
Larry, Much more
often than not, a faulty seal is indicative of a bad bearing just on the other
side. Therefore by all means check the bearing on the water pump. You will most
likely find excess play. ~ Grandpa86
Has anyone who had problems with the water pump leaking. What did you need to do to repair (what seal, what parts)? Going to try to get this done before we leave for Daytona on Wed. Lar noticed this moisture right above the exhaust pipe on the bottom of the motor right side. Help. ~ Nancy
I just ordered a seal kit for mine late last year so I would assume it would be still available. I ordered mine from www.bikebandit.com . ~ Rick
Do the whole water pump, Larry. Beside, I believe the seal kit for it is obsolete. Good Luck and thanks - probably means mine will go out this year ! lol ~ Denny
Larry, Not that bad
if you get one from Bike Bandit. It’s not that hard to install. Don't forget
to get the side cover gasket. I was going to install just seals but it’s
easier to put in a new one and not take the chance on the bearings being bad.
Complete pump shipped over night was under $200.00. ~ Frank in Indy
Larry needs to go under the bike and see where the water is coming from. It could be coming from a weep hole. If it is, it will tell him if it's the pump or just a seal. ~ Gerry in NY
I'm on my fourth water pump and not one of them leaked beforehand. Be thankful for the warning. I think the last one cost about $135.00. I keep a spare in the trunk just to be on the safe-side. ~ Eugene, San Diego
Hi! I'm looking for rear shocks for my Cade LXE ‘88. The dealer of my town sold each $625.00. I just want to know if the price is ok. ~ Claude
I just checked www.mawonline.com they have them for $254.95 Page 65 in their catalog. Don't know about shipping. Call 'em at 1-800-241-2222 ~ Dan “Ride what you love and love what you ride.”
Claude, get the Progressive air shock set for the Cavalcade. You can get them at most mail order places, and they usually go for around 270.00 for the set ~ Denny Potoczky, ‘86 Cavalcade LXE. ‘99 Kawasaki Nomad
What a difference shocks can make!! I bought a pair from this group many months ago and was finally able to install them. Spike once told me that it looked like I was riding a pogo stick. I had to keep airing up several times in a ride but that still didn't help out much. The bike rode like that pretty much since I bought it years ago but just thought that was how touring bikes rode. Then one day I was taking a turn I take every day while going to work and I hit a very small bump while leaned over. I ended up bottoming out, which put an end to my leaning and knocked me up straight. I then had to recover my senses and throw into another lean even harder to finish the corner. I've had to ride in a much less aggressive style so as not to duplicate that moment! Needless to say, I'm back for some better riding. ~ HeyJerr
And it's worth it for sure. I got the Progressives when I noticed one shock was leaking. It’s much nicer. ~ Brenden
WATER PUMP DRIVE CHAIN WEAR?
Hi all, I got the clutch springs on and thought, while I'm in here, might as well check everything else out. But I can’t understand how one goes about checking the water pump drive chain for wear. Can someone explain this to me? ~ Brian in IN, ‘87 tt Gray LX
Brian, You measure the length of 10 chain links to the outside of the pins. There's an illustration of it in the manual but I can't find it. ~ Tracy
The illustration on how to measure a chain is on page 3-37 it shows measuring the cam chain you do the water pump chain the same way but count only ten pins ~ Tom
OK.... I measured from outside of pins of 10 links and it's not close to the listed limit of 2.54". This is what I measured with the links pulled taught--- 2.592" and I measured 2.566" with them pushed together as tight as possible. Can someone tell me if this 26 thousands difference means I need a new chain? Thanks, Brian in IN
When I bought my Cade it had 2,600 miles on it and I noticed a slight little vibration when I start my roll shifting all up to 5th. gear, after I'm cruising at say 60mph and I give it the power to go up to 70--75 I can feel it again. it this just a Cade or is it something I need to look into ~ Richie
Sounds like you're running on 3 cylinders. You'd be surprised at how much power it has and smooth it will cruise firing on only three. ~ Tracy
Richie, I have an 88 also. When I picked mine up last fall it had 6300 miles on it. I changed all oils to full synthetic Mobil One. It works great for me. With 9500 miles on it now I would say that I have been very happy with the synthetic. I have no noticeable vibration at any speed up past 100 mph. I did change my front tire even though it looked new, to an Avon Venom X. The back was replaced last summer before I got it with an Elite II. 14 year old tires no matter what the appearance could be hard enough to cause vibration. Mine seems to grip and stop so much better now with the new front tire. Hope you find out about that vibration. Could be most anything. ~ Joe in CO
Well, I'm going with the Mobil One oil tomorrow and will look into getting the covers off to check the firing and might replace the plugs. the tires look like new but they have to be old, I'm going to make a few phone calls and check on getting new tires. someone said its best to go to a bike rally to buy tires but that will be Branson for me and I'm going to get them before then ~ Richie
GET A GRIP
O.K., I know some of you guys are going to wonder how inept I am, but that’s all right because I really do have a problem with replacing these grips. A man who owns a small motorcycle shop come up talking about we could shorten the handlebars, and I didn't like that idea. Owner of Suzuki Store came up with three different sets of grips that he said that none of would fit, so I really am at a loss here. Anyone who has replaced the grips, that might remember the brand and model number and what modifications they might have had to make, please help a poor old boy who is about to lose his "GRIP". ~ Louis
Try the Harley shop. You may have to cut the ends, but most will fit. ~ Grandpa86
My silly question is, do we remove and throw away the handlebar weights? I’ve tried replacing the grips with the foam ones and tried to cut a hole in the ends to re-attach the weights but they looked like shit so I put stock ones back on. ~ Ray
I bought foam grips last year and replaced the original ones with them. I still have the weights on the handlebars. I made sure that I could unscrew the ends of the grips I bought. But, even if the can't, you should still be able to cut a small hole in the ends of them; even drill a hole in them. ~ Gerry in NY
ALL DAY JOB
If you ever pull the secondary gearbox off of your Cade, there is a bolt that holds it on. When you put it back on it requires 1207B Suzuki Bond stuff. That bolt goes into the crankcase and will leak oil into the secondary tranny. Been there ... fixed that. In the manual it shows as bolt "A" and looks to be a top left bolt on the tranny. ~ Doug Jensen
~ ELECTRICAL ~
My Ok monitor has
never worked. I opened the box and it looked ok. Is there a fuse before the box?
Does any one had experience in getting their OK monitor working ~ MUD
The service manual
says little about the OK monitor except "if defective, replace". ~
Speaking of OK monitors, I just ordered a replacement - hope that solves my problem. If not, then some lucky member will get a deal on a new one! ~ Brian ’87 LXE in CT
I got my last one from Willie's Cycles. It's listed on the SuzukiCavalcade.com web site. I got their high output stator for $149.00 and am real happy with it so far. My voltmeter looks a lot healthier than with my other stators. ~ Eugene San Diego
Tom, By trade I'm a maintenance Electrician. From what you state, you can pretty much bank that your stator is okay. The Cade stator normally puts out 90 to about 110 volts 3 phase AC. The reg./rect. will brake it down to about 14.5 DC. Changing your reg./rect. should solve the problem. A voltage higher than 14.5 normally will evaporate the water out of the battery and possibly damage electrical equipment (once you go +/- 15% on voltage, damage can occur). If you determine that you need a stator, I have a new one and a parts one (19,000 miles). I also have a new and parts reg./rect. ~ Mike
Hi Mike, How can we test the reg./rect.? Thanks! ~ Luis
See www.electrexusa.com and/or the Cav service manual. Both offer instruction for testing. ~ Tracy
To test rectifier use multimeter set at 1k ohm to measure resistance of the red, orange, black/white stripe and yellow wires coming from rectifier. The approximate measurement between the + (positive) probe of tester on red and - (negative) probe of tester on orange should read approx. 80 ohms......+ (positive) on orange and -(negative) on black/white stripe wire should read approx. 35 ohms......+ (positive) on yellow and - (negative) on black /white should read approx. 3ohms. If the resistance checked is incorrect, time to replace rectifier. I hope this helps. ~ Nick
Luis, I'm sure the
manual gives a specific ritual for checking the reg./rect. I simply check the
voltage across the three legs of the stator: 1-2, 2-3, 3-1. If the voltage is
around what the manual says (I think it's about 90-110 VAC but don't hold me
exactly to that figure). If the stator checks out okay, plug it into the r/r and
check the secondary of the r/r or across the battery terminals at about 5000 rpm
(again, check the manual). If the voltage is 12.8-14.5 vdc, you are okay. If the
voltage is above that, you will be evaporating the water out of the battery and
possibly damaging critical electronic components. If the voltage is below the
low limit, you will be giving your battery what is called a surface charge (the
plates will be charged only on the surface and not all the way through). That
could result in your battery all of a sudden dying when you least want it to. ~
One thing more to
do is check the battery after a bit of a load. Say ten minutes of lights on and
then disconnect the ground of the battery and check across the battery. Voltage
should be above twelve. If less than that, could be the battery. Also make sure
that the battery terminals are clean as what makes the regulator work is the
resistance across the battery. The higher the resistance the more the voltage
across the battery leading the regulator to cycle off much more. ~ Grandpa ‘86
I did , cleaned the terminals of the battery ,down here I guess is the weather. But the Pick up have the same problem , the terminals got really dirty. Anyway, when I disconnected the ground ( NEG) of the battery to test it ( the bike was running) , well the dashboard started flickering and the engine sputtering, so couldn't do nothing else but put back the ground for the battery. I did something wrong?? or I'm having a problem? ~ Luis, Belize City
Luis, I'd call that
borderline. The prices they're charging these days would prompt me to keep
regular checks on it and hang tight. If it gets worse, well, you know the drill.
If I were in your place (and I wouldn't recommend anyone doing this unless you
really know what you're doing), I'd talk to one of the electrical engineers at
work to see if putting a proper resistor in series with the + wire could bring
down the voltage to a more acceptable level. ~ Mike
Hi Tracy, But why does that when I take off the ground. My question is WHY does that? Is normal? I have a BMW -100GS. You can start the bike and take out the battery. The bike keeps running without a problem. Also I do have a HGW 1500 SE, take out the battery while the bike is on and it's not a problem at all. It still runs until you turn the engine OFF. ~ Luis
I dunno. It just does. It's different wiring or something. I suppose the charging systems on the other bikes continue to supply enough juice without the battery. At least the world is still turning on its axis. ~ Tracy
Disconnecting the negative terminal while the bike is running is not a good thing. Clean the terminals with everything off including any electrical accessories. The regulator will short the output of the stator to ground when the circuit is broken. The resistance across the battery goes to infinity and the regulator thinks the battery is fully charged. ~ Some bikes have magneto ignition and will run until the cows come home or the magneto primary is shorted to ground. The Cade has coils that depend on the battery. At idle you weren't getting quite enough kick a poo joy juice from the charging system. ~ Grandpa86
Hi , I finally did , I believe is the way I was exposed to do it at the first place, following all of your advice.
Here are the readings:
With the Cade OFF.:
w/o battery ground = 13.42
w Battery ground on = 13.49
With the engine on: = 15.15 to 15.22 @ 1000 rpm
Can anyone analyze it? I still don't know If something is wrong or not. Looks like the stator is OK. The stator test gave me 100-105 VAC on the 3 phases. For the R/R , I really don't know how to get the answer from the readings. Please, to all of you, forgiveness, this field is far from my abilities. I can follow instructions but still I don't know what the answer means. I have the 2 Cades on the garage, one because of this problem. The second was build out of parts and is now complete. It needs only for me to finish the muffler. One of the two Cades looks "rusty" and in pretty bad state. So the idea is to finish it with aluminum. I am making one like it , the bending part and welding is done. Now the rest to do is the sanding and a coat of prime for tropical weather. I let you know and take a picture when is done. Thank you for all your help and sorry about my incompetence with the electrical knowledge. I could send the Cade to the mechanic if we had one down here. In Belize , everyone is a carpenter, electrician and plumber. I guess this is what scared me. Ride safe ~ Luis
Luis, The simplest
way to check if the r/r is functioning properly (assuming the stator is okay) is
to put a DC voltmeter (or multi-meter on the 20vdc scale) across the battery
terminals, start the bike, and run the rpm to 5000. If the voltage is more than
12.8 and less than 14.5 you're r/r is okay (the closer you are to 14.5 the
better). In addition if you have problems with corrosion, coat the terminals
with a thin layer of petroleum jelly. That should take care of that minor
annoyance. ~ Mike
The stator and battery readings sound a little high. However, it could just be your meter. The output of the stator phases should be 70 to 90 VDC and the battery at 5000 rpm should be no higher than 14.5. You might make sure that the RR is grounded well. If it sees too much resistance to ground it could be overfeeding the battery a little.
But, again, it could be your meter. ~ Tracy
Once the Cade is started the stator should be putting out because there is a magnetic field passing through the stator windings from the large magnet connected to crank shaft. so I would thing once started it should continue to run. ~ It still looks like a bad ground or cable connection between V regulator and battery or you have a bad voltage regulator. Have you verified the meter you are using. Check voltages with your car or HGW 1500 to make sure readings are correct on the meter? ~ BobL
Here are some comments from my personal problems with the bad grounds that go from the battery to the reg. Rect. I had a low voltage reading until I repaired the splice/connector just below the battery. Once this was repaired the voltage jumped right up to,14.5. I don't claim to know the Cades electrical system only not to get tinkeritious with it. As for running the Cade with battery disconnected I would think you might be asking for problems, I know the older cars and trucks you could do this, however they don't recommend doing it any more due the complicated//computerized nature of the beasts. I think that if you read carefully you will find that they don't recommend letting the bikes electrical system charge a very low battery. And suggest it should be fully charged, and am certain they suggest this before making the electrical tests. At least we should keep these practices at a minimum. Never cross connect on an emergency jump-start. To avoid running a jump-start through the Cades electrical system, I turn the key on, hook the jumper cables to the frame, and then jump the positive right to the starter cable, at the starter by placing it on the starter terminal itself, which engages the starter. This way the jump-start only includes the starter as you have isolated the rest of the system by not including the starter solenoid I guess I have only complicated this discussion. Remember by doing this, you have bypassed the main breaker, and holding the positive on the starter terminal very long could damage the starter, by over heating it. Just my practices, to each his own, also if you hit the outer case of the starter an arch will occur, but the only damage to your bike will be a burned spot on the starter. By also hooking the positive up securely to the starter terminal first, and touching the ground to the frame bolt, the jump arching process will take place at the ground, and not on the terminal bolt. ~ Walter
Not to throw stones, but it seems that jumping a bike in this manner does what you say is not recommended. That is allowing the charging system to charge a very low battery. I would hook cables to battery and allow the battery to charge for 5-10 minutes before starting. Thus battery has charged up enough to not put a major load on the Cade charging system. ~ Brian in IN 87 tt Gray LX
Brian: you are absolutely right. As stated these practices should be kept to a minimum. If done at all, only in an emergency. Maybe I should have not even suggested them, as there might be too much confusion as to when it will work or when to apply the procedure. As you stated it is a good idea to hook the cables and pre charge the battery. I have even push started OR HAD HELP push starting as long as the battery has enough voltage to support the electrical system to provide the spark. The OK meter requires 8 Volts to light up and if you can see that it will probably push start. I only push started it ONCE after leaving the road lights on, before rewiring them to go off with the ignition. ~ Walter n Maryland
I have a question about problem I am having with my '86 Cade. The battery was not getting a charge and had to be replaced after many recharging. I still have the same problem. I checked the 3 yellow stator wires. I get a very hot charge in one wire and faint, if any, in the other two wires. I removed the cover and had about a 1/2 qt. of oil inside the area where stator is. Is there supposed to be oil inside this cover? If not, could the oil be cause of the problem? If the stator is defective does anyone know where I can get one for less than the $418.00 found on "bike bandit .com? Any help and/or suggestions greatly appreciated, ~ Nick
Yes. Oil is suppose to be in there (it is open to the crankcase and cools the stator). Check www.suzukicavalcade.com for stator replacements. ~ Tracy
Take your stator to
any reputable rebuilder. Quite a few have got them rebuilt for less than two
hundred. ~ Grandpa ‘86
A wealth of info is to be found just by typing in the word “stator” in the search archive box at the top right side of the page. ~ Joe in CO
Currently, my used
stator and r/r are promised out. The new stator is $200 plus your defective one.
I've decided to try rebuilding them myself and save the membership some $. If it
works, then I'll let the membership know. From the description of your problem,
it sounds to me like the r/r should rectify (sic) it. If not, let me know. ~
REPLACING THE AUXILIARY LIGHT SWITCH
I have a question regarding the square switch for the auxiliary lights. Mine turns the lights on when I press it, but does not latch and keep them on. Is there any problem with replacing one of these switches with a simpler toggle or push button? ~ Red, ’86 LX
There is no problem replacing that switch. ~ Tracy
CHANGING THE CORNERING LIGHTS TO DRIVING LIGHTS
Well I finally got my hands on a digital camera so I could show those that were interested how I installed my driving lights in place of the cornering lights. Just so happens I also had the Cade apart so I could take some good shots. Please forgive me for how dirty the bike is. I didn’t realize it till I started looking at these photos on the computer. I'm also including a picture of the air compressor fittings to clean if your Cade seems to take a long time to "Auto-Level" like mine did. I took all the fittings apart and found these 2 were the only ones that were bad. And they were BAADD!! The link to my web site is http://ww2.netnitco.net/users/shermanp/drivinglights/drivinglights.html. ~ Brian in IN, 87 tt Gray LX
~ SOUND SYSTEM
OHMING OUT THE WIRES
I got my helmets
fixed up with J&M products & all of the interface cables for the Cade. I
hooked everything up last night for a smoke test. Even talked the wife into
putting on a helmet so I could check out the radio and intercom. It all worked
even her volume control. Now that's kind of scary. I mean getting her to put a
helmet on not the audio system working. She even had the nerve to ask if we were
going for a ride. Now is that anyway for a 51-year-old woman to be talking. That
thing (Cade) could kill somebody. The other thing has already just about killed
someone!! ~ The Cade has a Midland CB mounted in the left pocket. Does anyone
know what its going to take to wire it into the gray 8 pin CB din connector? ~
Virgil: You need to
open it up and ohm out the wires. Then if you go to the Cavalcade site you can
use my diagram to help you wire it up to the bike. ~ mike c., ‘86lx
FM BAND GOES DEAD
I am getting SuzyCycle for a road trip in early May to the Thunder over Texas Motorcycle Rally in Justin TX. The question of the day is this ,my radio is starting to act up on the FM side sometimes it plays then it crackles then quits never to come on again for days, then the next time you start it up it works fine ,no problems on the A.M. side. Could this be the famous switch problem or possibly something a little deeper in the system? Serria Electronics did original repairs when I bought the bike five years ago. I think that I could do the switch change out myself without sending it off. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. ~ Also anybody in the Fort Worth, TX. area know of any good roads to ride in that area as we will be looking for a good day trip while attending the rally.
John in LA ‘86 LXE
Probably something else (sounds like something loose), but switch replacement is an absolute must. ~ Tracy
I think the problem is NOT one of the switches. If it were the usual switch problem, you would not be able to switch the radio from AM to FM or tape. The crackling sound could be something as simple as a poor antenna connection either at the antenna base or the connectors on the bottom of the radio or on the bike. I would try cleaning the connectors with a good electrical contact clear spray first and see if things improve. I had a similar problem and it was just poor connections where the radio plugs into the bike. I give the contacts a good spray cleaning every two years and so far so good. ~ Mike
SYSTEM SHUTS DOWN
Prior to joining this great group, I sent my radio off to a professional shop and paid to have the buttons replaced. The radio has worked just fine until a few months ago when a new problem appeared. When slowing down and just about ready to stop, it will make a slight pop and after that it locks up and no additional sounds of music or even static can be heard from the radio. Normally the display will show AM 12E7 on the display. No button pushing of any kind will change anything; however it you turn it off and back on everything is just fine until the next time it decides to do it again. It may be the next time you slow down and stop or it might be many miles/and or stops later. Turning the key off and back on will also reset the radio. It also does the same thing if you are playing the tape deck. I have taken the radio and unplugged it and re-pluged it back into the system and it did not seem to help. All buttons still appear to work just fine. The problem only occurs when the bike is slowing and just about ready to stop. Could it be related to the automatic volume shutting off just before you stop. Hard braking does not cause the problem as long as you are still moving faster than a slow/fast walk. The problem can occur just before stopping without braking if you coast to a very slow stop but not all of the time. Any ideas or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. ~ David Williams Evansville, Indiana 87 LXE Black & Grey, E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org
You might want to change the battery, which is internally in the radio. ~ Rod
Has anyone here been able to connect like a FRS radio into the Cavalcade radio system? Thanks. ~ Erik Hendrix
WORK’N ON THE INTERCOM
Regarding the intercom knob on the radio, is that for the intercom volume? Does the intercom have some sort of noise-gate/volume activated? Just wondering, I've only got one headset. But I figured out the wiring and wired a headphone up to an old XT keyboard connector (fits fine, wonder if I could hook up a keyboard and reprogram my Cade). I get sound just fine outta that headset but when I connect the 'real' headset with mic and talk I don't hear it. I verified the mic wiring is correct, as it works fine on the factory CB. I suspect my only recourse is to break down and buy a headset for my helmet and try it all out. Oh, and I already replaced the switches and everything works great, except above noted possible non-problem with intercom. ~ Brenden Walker, DRB Systems Inc.
Brenden, You can
download all of the manuals for the radio and CB at http://www.billydump.com/cav/download.htm.
Maybe you will find an answer there. ~ Tracy
FARING COVER MATERIAL
I would like to know what material the black cover where the map case is located is made of. ABS, pvc, fiberglass? I would like to weld it and I need to have a compatible filler rod. Has any one else had luck in repair this piece or other faring parts? I would also like to bond a piece of metal to faring part, any luck with adhesives? Thanks MUD
The fairing parts are all ABS. If you want to bond to it, any number of good plastic specific epoxies and/or fiberglass resins will work given sufficient surface roughness and surface area for the load. A little chopped glass or carbon fiber added to the mixture will add a lot of strength. Welding is fine but if the cracks are the result of long-term UV exposure, the base material might be so damaged that welding could be a short-lived repair. ~ Tracy
REPLACING THE GRIPS
Would appreciate some help. Purchased 1986 LXE Blue Cavalcade VIN JS1VX71A4G21U6459 with 28,970 miles on it a couple of months ago from widow of original owner. Have only put about 400 miles on it, just getting comfortable and really enjoying the ride. Have learned quite a bit by reading some of the back post. Has anyone replaced their grips with anything other than factory replacements? If so, would appreciate your replies. ~ Louis
Any of the one-inch grips will work. I've got the foam grips on mine and like them very well. Just remember we got 1" bars like the Harley's.....after that there's no comparison. ~ KennG
I like these grips and might try these this summer. http://www.ironbraid.com/grips.html
I did just that. I had to use the inner sleeve of the throttle grip so the throttle cable would work but I used a generic 1-inch chrome & rubber grip set. ~ Brian 87LXE in CT
Be careful. If you braid your levers the clutch may not reach enough to engage the start switch unless you have it bypassed. ~ Gerry in NY
REPAIRING BROKEN SIDE PANEL PINS
recommend a good epoxy to repair the side panels? The pins that go into the seat
have broken off but remained in the seat. So I have all the pieces. Hopefully
they can be epoxied back into place. ~ Neal, LX ‘86 in NJ
I used JB-weld, but only after I had used a heated piece of a heavy paperclip to 'drill' a hole through it. Then when I JB-welded it, I put some JB on the wire and slid it in for reinforcement. Everything is holding up very well. ~ Brenden
When you have repaired the pins you may want to put grease on the pins for reinstalling your side panels. This is so the pins slide smoothly in the rubber. ~ William in Belgium
Another trick is to drill the broken pin out a little and use a self tapping screw with a bit of epoxy glue. Put the screw in from the cover side through into the drilled out broken pin. Works great. ~ Brian in IN, ‘87 tt Gray LX
~ PARTS AND ACCESSORIES ~
PARTS FOR SALE
Hey all, Don Box has brought two parts bikes to my attention. They are in California, just north of San Francisco. I don't know anything about them, except that neither is currently running. ~ Angelo 415-810-9260 $1000 for both
Clarion Radio W/Intercom & Driveshaft/Front Rim off ‘86 LXE ~ Robert Sylvia: email@example.com
I have two Bell helmets with the headsets in them that came with my Cade, they are still in the box and I don't think they were ever used. they look brand new, I think they are called Rougue--or something like that, they are out in my hanger put up and its to cold to go look. I don't need them and have no idea what they are worth, I'm going to take them to a bike shop to get an idea of their worth. if anyone is interested I can send a few pictures tomorrow--or, I might trade them for something I can use. ~ Richie, E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org
Superbrace web site list the serial numbers that mark a unit as early '86?
HAVE A SEAT
Hi All Cade Owners and Riders, I Love my 87LX Cade Grey on Grey. I just can't get comfortable on my seat. Gets my bum numb after half hr. ride. But that's OK because I'm a smoker, so I get to stop to have my fix of nicotine. (Cough Cough) ~ Don in Mass.
Don, To save your backside, you might look into a Russell "DayLong" saddle. Information is in the "Parts & Accessories" section of our web site. They are pricey, but I think they're worth the investment. Don't worry about stopping for a cigarette, you can get the same effect by following a diesel bus. ~ Jay
Below is a site in Australia where trailer hitches for our Cades can be bought. A member on another forum said they are chrome or powder-coated. http://www.classicind.com.au/page14.html ~ Barbara
All hitches are supplied with wiring harness Plugs and are fully ADR complianced Prices are Gloss black powder coat US$168.76 Quad plate chrome US$250.64 Packing and freight to the US: $85.00. The extra US$81.88 for chrome is for the higher-grade steel and extra time they require to be polished before plating. Delivery to the US is about 5 days. Payment can be made by Visa M/C Just email or fax your details and we will get it in the post for you. We have 1x TS21 Cavalcade hitch left in stock finished in gloss black. Send your snail mail address and we will send you brochures and prices. Prices are not on the net because they are never in the right currency.
I'm looking at this MAW catalog for tires, front and back. they have 4--5 different brands. I thought I ordered the right tires a few days back but got a call last Friday from a girl that works there and she said it wasn't the right tires for my bike--what brand do most of you guys run, I'm now looking at Pirelli MT66-route in this catalog. I wanted to order them on line tonight but thought I had better ask some of you as to what brand to order----------getting confused, ~ Richie
If you're looking into buying tires buying via mail order are the best deals. I've had great luck with Shade Tree. Check the back of a motorcycling magazine and get their 800 #. I usually have my tires within 3 days. You next problem is finding someone to put it on without charging you an arm & a leg. Of course if you take the wheel off yourself you'll save big bucks but each year the shops find some way of jacking the prices up for a simple tire mounting. ~ Doug Jensen
Richie: I’d suggest the Dunlop Elite 491 for this bike. That's what I run on mine. I pull a trailer and they wear better for me. Some of the guys are running Venoms Pirelli. I guess it just depends on what type riding you're doing. I wish I could be more helpful. I do know for a fact the Dunlop Elite 491, will outlast the Dunlop Qualifier. ~ Walter n MARYLAND
Dunlop Elite II ~ Denny Potoczky, 86 Cavalcade LXE, 99 Kawasaki Nomad, South Bend, IN
http://www.discountmotorcycletire.com/dunlop_s.html?mgiToken=CCD885BD61C3E26DEA This page might take a while to open. ~ Joe in Co 88LX
I have run the
following tires on my 1987 LXE: Michelin High Tours; Metzler (The top of the
line that was recommended for the CADE.); and I am now running Dunlop Elite II's.
Both the Michelins and Metzelers lasted about 11,000 to 12,000 miles and both
front and the back were "SLICK"! Both handled about the same. ~ The
Dunlop Elites make the bike handle much better (A lot better like night and
day!) and I have about 6,000+ miles on the Dunlop's and it appears that I will
get 20-25000+ miles on them as they still look like new. At this time I will
only run the Dunlop Elite II's. ~ David Williams, Evansville, Indiana 47712
SEALED LEAD ACID BATTERY
Here is a site that sells a sealed lead acid battery for the Cavalcade - free shipping, $74.95 with one year warranty.
~ Don Dorion 86 LX
~ PARTS WANTED ~
I am looking for a shop/service manual for my ‘86 . I know the CD has the same info on it , but I still would like to have the book. ~ "ichaboney"
Still available from Suzuki. ~ Phil
I need the volume switch, but it looks like it would be easier to replace the whole assembly that is currently in pieces on my workbench. It looks somewhat the worse for wear. ~ email@example.com
I have a friend who has misplaced a few things when re-spraying his Cade. They are: numberplate light, top box hinges and LX seat. If anyone has any of them please send mail to: firstname.lastname@example.org
I will then pass it on to him. Thanks ~ Dave SCCUK
RADIO VOLUME CONTROL
I am looking for the whole assembly or at least the radio volume control for the rear rider CB/radio control for an 86 LXE. I deleted the emails with parts bike addresses, etc. in error. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks Scott Daily Carrollton, TX email@example.com
Scott, I'm not sure I understand what you are looking for. The LXE passenger controls had a "fader" control for front rear speaker balance, a volume control, and a tuner switch for the radio. The LX did not have the "fader" control - at least the 88 LX parts bike I have does not. As an add-on if you installed a CB Suzuki had an additional control that attached to the passenger controls that allowed CB channel switching and a passenger push to talk button. Are you looking for just the radio volume control? Or the whole switch panel? ~ Al from Mass.
(Houston, We Have A Cavalcade)
Anyone have a spare heat shield for the right side exhaust pipe for an 86 'Cade? ~ John K. E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org
FOR SALE ~
I thought I'd never have to do this, but I've got thousands of dollars of uninsured medical bills I have to pay. My Cade has 31k miles on it and is in great shape. I live 45 miles west of Chicago, IL. Anyone interested, can contact me at me e-mail address: email@example.com. I'm asking $4,000 for it. If interested, I can e-mail all information plus some pictures. Jim J.
1986 LXE Excellent condition. Many parts re-chromed. New battery, tires, front and rear brakes. 15,865 original miles. Best offer- Will send pictures to any interested party. E-mail User290542@mediaone.net or call 508-291-2524 Renee Santos
I was wondering if anyone in the group would be interested in purchasing a mint condition Cavalcade trike. I have photos available. It currently has 22,000 miles on it and is a 1987 which was purchased new by me in 1988. It runs and rides like new. Thanks ~ Lee Hahn E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org
Hey Gang, I met
this guy Last Summer from Benica, Ca. here in the SF Bay area that has a Cade
and trailer. He is now interested in selling them because of his age. Here is
his description of the current physical condition of bike and trailer. Bike:
1986 LX., Less than 60K on Speedo. It runs good and strong. Paint Brown +
Tan, upholstery Brown. Working radio and cassette. New Windshield. Markland
hitch (chrome). Helmet ready for ear phones (front and rear) with rear volume
control. Cruse control. Luggage rack. Driver's Back rest. Chrome, Tires, Radio,
Vinyl, Paint etc., in Very GOOD Condition. New Stator 2 years back. Every thing
works. Trailer: Rectangular
Clamshell, Aluminum Construction with Rounded corners painted same as the bike,
complete with wiring harness. Trailer in same condition as Bike but tires are a
concern because he has never used the trailer (Has owned both sense 1990).
Asking $3500 for bike and $800 for trailer or $4000 for both.
CADE PROJECTS ~
BRAKES ON TRIKES
Hey Gang, I need the assistance of the group. As some of you are aware I purchased an '87 Cade Trike last May (remember I was born missing both lower limbs). It took until September for a buddy of mine to figure out how to convert the shifter. Finally we decided to go with electric motor and push button on handle bar next to clutch lever. This appears to work fine. We made a part that attached to the handle bar next to brake lever and ran cable (something like throttle cable) from foot brake up to hand brake. Unfortunately due to having only thumb and two fingers on my right hand I did not have enough strength to pull hand lever in to engage rear brake. This also kept me from having enough front brake to stop vehicle at stop signs. The guy from whom I bought the bike also triked it while over at his house he unhooked the rear cable brake. He said I only needed front brake and I could pull the hand lever with ease to engage front brake. Well I rode over a 1000 miles in Sept/October with just front brake and came to the conclusion that if I really had to lay down on the brakes in an emergency to avoid an accident I did not feel comfortable with just front brake. I feel I need to somehow tie the front and rear brakes together and have them operate on hand lever. Well I talked to Wolf and he said to use a proportioning valve like they use in stock cars. Well I took that idea back to my buddy who did the shifter work. He stated that he thought about that last year (he has experience with racecars) but was afraid the brake system and reservoir would not hold enough brake fluid to operate both front and rear brake. Wolf said he thought it would. So this brings me to where we are to date. We have a proportioning valve but are having trouble finding a way to get the fittings on the brake lines to connect with proportioning valve. We do not want to tap them to make them fit (afraid we will mess them up or they will leak). Does anyone have any ideas for me to get front and rear brakes to operate on hand lever that will not be so difficult for me to pull with my small hand? Your idea can be the way we want to go if you can tell us how to adapt brake line fittings or any other idea to give me some safe brakes. Help!!! ~ Kelly B. in Missouri P.S. Whoever can help me figure this out I'll buy them a cold one in Branson.
Kelly, There should be plenty of reservoir capacity since you can only pump in one pull of the lever the amount that is always in front of the piston. The only thing that might be an issue is, as the brake pads wear, the reservoir won't have as much reserve capacity and will need to be filled more often. (But not by much)The other issue is primarily of volume per stroke and the ability of that volume to actuate 3 calipers (actually 6 pistons) effectively enough to have good brakes before the lever bottoms out on the grip. My guess is that it will work fine but the lever will be slightly less responsive and it will take more lever movement to bind the brakes up good. Of course, you also have to figure that you're adding additional brake line length, which can mush things up a little as the lines expand during hard braking. This can be partially remedied by installing smaller diameter stainless steel/Teflon lined brakes lines front and rear and/or making most of the rear line out of standard steel brake-line tubing using a short length of flex only as necessary. Changing pads to a higher friction compound will also help lower lever pressure and could have more effect than any other change you might make. As for adapting the lines to the proportioning valve, look into Dennis Kirk. They have a bunch of fittings and brake tubing that you can assemble to make your own lines up that will screw directly into the valve and you can put whatever end you want on the other end to connect to the caliper or whatever. The lines won't be DOT approved, but there are sure a bunch of racers out there using them without problems. ~ Tracy
Kelly, with these restrictions, I would recommend some form of powered assist, such as an electric motor driving a pressurization system. A triked Cade is too heavy to haul down with just a front brake in an emergency. Your friend is right: even if you adapted a larger master cylinder reservoir, you likely couldn’t push enough fluid down the line to operate four discs, even if you had a big hand. I helped a buddy link three discs to a foot pedal, and it took some effort and displacement. I’m guessing you could mount an electrically driven powered assist in the trunk. ~ Spike
It might be
worthwhile to consider adapting a car's power brake system and mount it in the
trunk. You will need vacuum from the engine and a lot of high-pressure tubing.
But the system will have more than enough power and fluid capacity for three
wheels. Basically, lead the tubing from the hand brake to a small cylinder that
would push the plunger on the power brake mechanism that is normally pushed by
the foot brake of a car. You can take it from there. Some of the newer power
brakes are pretty compact and would do the job with little hand pressure. ~
Grampa's idea sounds like the way to go. The only problem I foresee is getting the proper amount of vacuum because there is not a common to all cylinders intake manifold from which the vacuum can be pulled. There may be some way to fabricate a four line Vacuum manifold, and run 1 line to each carb tube? and employ a vacuum canister, which you will probably need anyway. Ford mustangs of the 80's had a small compact power booster as well as some of the ORIENTAL imports. Let's see now HOW would McGuyver do this? Ride Safe ~ Walter n Maryland
Another thought on your brakes. They have electric brakes on stock trailers that are activated by the master cylinder when you touch the brake pedal. I think that with a little time at the drawing board they could be made to work on your trike. ~ Tom Yost, ‘86 LXE, Riding for the Son.
Far be it from me to be skeptical. But I ha' me doots he would be able to get enough vacuum from the intake manifold to effectively assist your braking. I’m guessing Kelly will need a positive pressure system running off a 12 volt motorized system. ~ Spike
Kelly, I was giving your message a read with some interest. I know that I know little about brake systems, but it would seem that you might look into the BMW or Honda GoldWing ABS III braking systems. Each of these systems are capable of handling your needs and enjoyment. The Cavalcade is a large bike and has enough room for the necessary components. Only question is, will BMW or Honda dispatch a unit without a motorcycle attached to it? Check with your local friend and see if this may be an option. ~ Micky, "Gray 87 LX"
Kelly, have you thought about adding a second hand brake to connect to the rear brakes. That way you would be able to operate both brakes independently. It's just a suggestion. ~
In a quick test of
my old Plymouth van, there was sufficient vacuum in the accumulator to operate
the power brakes three times after the engine was shut off. I would still
manifold the vacuum to all carburetors though.
~ TRIPS &
With the trips & travel season approaching, it would be prudent to take some precautionary steps to protect yourself in case your wallet is lost or stolen:
GRANTS PASS TO OREGON COAST & BACK
Caders, Yesterday I did a 329 mile loop out of Grants Pass, Oregon No on I-5 70 miles, West 76 miles to the Pacific Coast and then south on 101 for 83 miles and then back through the twisties to Grants Pass. Left at 10:30 Got home at 6:30 with hour lunch stop and two other short breaks. My first long ride on the Cade and the first long ride since last summer. Boy was I pooped when I got home. The weather was beautiful all the way with the temp going sown into the low 40s high 30s in the last leg over Oregon Mountain on Hwy 199. The Cade performed well. I knew I was having fun when my boot on the right peg kissed the pavement in tight turn. I figured that I should not let my size 13s hang down so far. Part of my posting about my first ride last Monday was lost because I didn't know how to use the Yahoo site. What was missing was information about my 87 LX blue on blue. The ride on Monday was the first time the machine had been on the road since 1992 or 93. The former owner bought it new in 1989, rode it for 4300 miles and then parked it in his garage, expecting to be riding it again soon. Soon didn't come for Bob, after a number of years of dialysis he had a double kidney transplant in 1998. Just last summer he figured he would never ride again and offered it to me. It took me until December to make up my mind. I took a big gamble and I think I won. So far, all indications are that the Cade is no worse the wear for being stored in Bob's Garage. AND I have ended up with a wonderful machine with no significant mechanical or cosmetic blemishes. I continue to appreciate the quality of the machine both mechanically and aesthetically. One blemish at the moment is that I seem to have fouled the outside brake pad on the right hand front rotor. Grease keeps showing up on the rotor even after I went after the rotor and pads with brake cleaner and then degreaser today. It doesn't look to be brake fluid, the level is staying up in the reservoir. The grease likely came from my overzealous application when I was putting the front axle back together. I will watch over the next week and at least replace all 4 front pads next weekend. If there is any indication that fluid is leaking, I will rebuild the cylinders also. On the 19th or 20th I will be going from San Diego California to Tucson Arizona, returning to San Diego on the 23rd. Minimum 875 miles round trip straight but I will add to that by getting off the freeways where I can. I'll let you know how trip 3 went. May you go safely, smoothly and swiftly. ~ John Harelson, ’87 LX, Blue on Blue, Grants Pass, Oregon
IRON BUTT RALLY
Any of you 'Caders ever do any Iron Butt Association rides? I've completed a Saddle Sore 1000 (1000 miles in 24 hours) and found my name on their web site. I'm the only Cavalcade I've been able to locate. There are about 4000 members far as I can tell. Shooting for some more certifications this summer in an effort to get considered for the IBA Rally in '03. My neighbor's twelve year old son was just diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumor and I've got some people/corporations willing to sponsor me in the Iron Butt with all proceeds going to the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation. Whether I get in the Iron Butt Rally or not, I'm planning some type of "Ride-A-Thon" for the PBTF. When the time comes, if any interest from the rest of you, I'll send you the details. Regards, Bob Lilley, email@example.com
~ MOTORCYCLE STORIES ~
I know of two member nicknames for their Cades. One is Beastly the other is Gideon. Mine is "Goober" (its brown like a peanut). What are some others out there? Just some more schtick to keep people thinking. ~ Dick Carter Bay City TX, 86 BR/BR LX (Goober)
Dick, What about mine "SuperSmurf", its big and blue. (not sure if the Smurfs, little blue cartoon figures, are known in the states) ~ Berend J. Lindeman
I just call my Cade "Old Girl." The garage is full of toys of one type or another and she is my oldest and dearest. ~ Gary
Opps. I have spent
the last 3 weeks getting the Cade ready to ride. Undressed it, changed clutch
and brake fluids, new platinum plugs, clean oil & filter, new coolant and
new radiator cap, new battery. I also installed new Dunlop Elite IIs, front and
back and had bearings checked. Carbs had to be removed and cleaned up,
reinstalled and balanced by Steve the mechanic. Greased everything I could get
at. I used Suzuki silicone lubricant into all cables, and I cleaned everything
accessible. ~ Re-dressing the Cade was a learning experience. Took me way too
long. Gained an appreciation for the parts and the whole of the machine. Put the
antenna on about 9:30 PM Sunday, uncapped a beer and just sat and looked at it.
~ The ride Monday noon was 33 miles out and back and a pleasure. Started out
tentatively and gained a feel for the Cade quickly. I was surprised how
"nimble" it is. I do have to be careful because I went out to pass a
chip truck on a two-lane road and looked down at the speedo and saw 95+.
Glad to hear you
enjoyed your first Cade ride, Mine was to make sure it Ran well enough to sell,
that was 6 years ago and have no plans on selling it any time soon. It is
definitely an IMPROVEMENT over the 750, and yes it does run over the speed
limit, with no problems. All my friends that ride with me say I run way TOO
fast, a shame they have never ridden a Cade. Be Careful Enjoy your NEW TOY. Ride
Safe! ~ Walter n Maryland
Welcome to the
Cavalcade World. I've had mine for 14 years and every time I consider replacing
it I can't find a ride more comfortable. At close to 100,000 on the odometer I
would not hesitate to take it coast to coast. We
John, I have my
86LX stripped to the bone. Thinking of painting it this month. I am sure I will
go trough the same pain of putting all back myself. It's great to hear how much
you enjoy the bike. Ride On! ~ Wojo, ’86 LX, Kent WA
EAST & NORTHEAST RIDERS TO BRANSON
Some of the folk
from the East will be making our hometown their first stopping point on our
jaunt to Branson. Most will be coming in on Friday Sept 15th . We live right off
I -70 in Huber Hts, which is a suburb of Dayton, Ohio, It is approximately 12-13
hr ride from hear to Branson.....so our thoughts were to head out from here on
Sat. Sept 15th and ride to somewhere around St. Louis and spend the night. On
Sunday we will ride on in to Branson.....
CADE RAID 2002
and Check-in at the Honeysuckle Inn Resort http://www.honeysucklebranson.com/
pm – 10:00 pm Exhibitor Set-up (Exhibitors
am – 10:00 am Exhibitor
am – 5:00 pm
am – 1:00 pm
Self-Guided Tour of Branson http://branson.com/dbba/
am – 5:00 pm Exhibits
pm – 4:30 pm
Classes or Workshops
pm – 5:45 pm
Reception in the Cardinal Room
pm – 9:00 pm
Welcome Dinner and Imax Theater Show http://bransonimax.com/
am – 5:00 pm Registration Open
am – 5:00 pm Exhibits Open
am – 12:00 am Classes or Workshops
pm – 2:00 pm Ride the Ducks to Lunch: http://www.ridetheducks.com
pm – 5:00 pm Group Rides
(7:30 – 10:30 pm) “Country Tonite”
Live Music & Comedy Show http://www.countrytonite.com/branson/index.html
am – 12:00 noon Registration Open
am – 5:00 pm Exhibits Open
am – 12:30 pm Classes or Workshops
2:00 pm – 5:00 pm Group Rides
Enjoy a second day free at the Silver Dollar City Theme Park. OR, ride to Lake of the Ozarks or another area that provides us a day’s ride through the Ozarks before heading home. http://www.funlake.com/ http://www.odd.net/ Over-night stay at a local resort or motel.
CADE RAID 2002 ~ REGISTRATION FORM
STATE, ZIP: ___________________________________________________________
included with pre-registrations received by August 1, 2002
All fees go to
the expenses for Cade Raid 2002.
_____ CADE OWNER: $25.00 _____
PASSENGER: $15 _____ EXTRA
SHIRTS @ $15.00
_____ Small _____
Large _____ X-Large
MARK OPTIONAL CHOICES BELOW. Registration Fees Do Not Include Lodging or the
following Optional Events. Complete this Form by Marking the Following and
Calculating Your Total Payment Below.
Monday Evening Dinner & IMAX Theater @ $20.00 per Person: $ _______
Tuesday Noon, “Ride The Ducks” Lunch @ $21.00 per Person: $ _______
Tuesday Evening Show “County Tonite” @ $22.00 per Person: $ _______
Wednesday Evening Awards Dinner @ $20.00 per Person: $ _______
Thursday & Friday Optional Days at Silver Dollar City Theme Park with
Dinner Cruise and a Live Show aboard the Showboat Branson Bell
@ $75.00 per Person: $ _______
TOTAL OF ALL ABOVE FEES: ___________
Check # _________ (Payable to Tree Farm Communications, Inc.)
To Charge to your Credit Card Please Include Visa, MasterCard, Discover or
American Express Card Number:
#: ___________________________ Expires: ____________
Return Completed Form To: Cade Raid 2002
c/o Tree Farm Communications, Inc.
23703 NE 4th Street
Sammamish, WA 98074-3612 USA
Last updated: Wednesday, February 06, 2013
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